Dan: So, Harvey, where'd you grow up? Tell us a little bit about your background.

Harvey: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, and started my early years in Brooklyn at 152 Rodney Street. It's amazing the things after 66 years you remember. So, in a religious Hasidic community. My family, at least my family in Brooklyn, were pretty religious and my parents, although not as religious, sent me to Yeshiva in Brooklyn.

Dan: Yeshiva being a religious school?

Harvey: Very religious, Yeshiva, which, you know, I felt, kind of, out of place in that kind of life, you know? You know, I remember it well. And then after a few years, we moved to Queens to Q Gardens and they sent me to Yeshiva there, which I also felt out of place. So, I think one of my earliest memories about going to religious school, we had to wear a thing called tzitzit, which was like a...I don't know if you know what that is, but like an undergarment as well as wearing a yarmulke. And I would never have them, you know, put them on. And one time we had a tzitzit check and, you know, they sent me home from school, you know. So I really never enjoyed that kind of schooling, you know, because it was a long day from 8:00 to 6:00 and I never got home to watch "Superman" on time, you know?

Dan: Yeah.

Harvey: So then they gave me the opportunity to go out of Yeshiva and go to a regular school.

Dan: A public school?

Harvey: A public school, junior high school. And they offered me, they said, "Do you want to go to regular junior high school?" So I said, "Okay, I would try." And believe it or not, I think after a week in junior high school, I was so culturally not used to that secular way of life that I actually wanted to go back to the Yeshiva. But I said, "Oh, let me try further." When I was young and going through those years, I probably up until the age of, I don't know, I think probably 12, 13, really didn't have much in the way of friendships with anybody, you know? Because I never felt that I fit into that kind of life and I didn't have friends from the other kind of life. So it was like a new world to me. You know, bells going off where I had to go to different classes and everything. I became...I think I was a pretty shy kid. A very shy kid, believe it or not.

And so it wasn't until, you know, high school, I think, that that started to change for me. I was in a speech class, I remember it well, and I made a speech about transcendental meditation, I believe, and with the demonstration. And the class thought that this was very funny, you know? And they waited for my next speech, which was karate with a demonstration, which was also very comedic. And I all of a sudden found out that, oh, I could be funny, and people like that. And, you know, got attention, and really enjoyed that. And the speech teacher was also in charge of the drama class, you know, acting class. And she wanted me in the drama class and to be participating in the plays, which I really did not want to do at that point.

Dan: But ultimately, that was where you began your love of acting and theater.

Harvey: Yes. Soon I had a real love of acting, and I was able to make friends by doing that and become, you know, moderately popular or whatever in high school. So now we're through high school, pretty much, and drama. So...

Dan: Talk about college.

Harvey: Starting college, I said, "Oh, that's not a practical thing, you know, to become an actor," you know? And I always thought that I wanted to be a doctor. So I started college, Queens College, a city college or whatever, as pre-med, you know? So I think it was after taking chemistry and biology and, you know, "This is..." It finally dawned on me that I really...I didn't want to be a real doctor, I wanted to be a doctor on TV. I wanted to be a TV doctor.

Dan: Chad Everett?

Harvey: You know, actually in my day, it was Dr. Kildare and Ben Casey. So I really wanted to be those guys. So I said, "Okay, this is not..." And I transferred out of, you know, being pre-med and I went straight to the theater department, and all the rest of my credits through college was in theater.

Dan: And so that's what...you graduated with a theater degree?

Harvey: Yeah, yeah, a liberal arts degree, and I really had nothing to do after college, you know, so I really...And so at that point, you know, and I would start going...But I was still really shy and not an aggressive, you know, personality. So I felt like I was capable as an actor and what I had learned in all that, but, you know, it was still a difficulty for me, the idea of going out and auditioning. So my dad says to me, "You know, while you go out and audition and do this and pursue your career, what are you going to do? Are you going to wait on tables? Let me teach you a trade." You know, and he was a master diamond cutter. And I said, "Okay, I will try to do that," you know? And that's how I actually got into the diamond business because he taught me how to cut diamonds. And, you know, I sat across from him, and he would teach me diamond cutting. And this way I was able to start to make a living.

Dan: So this is...So acting was what you graduated college with that degree...

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: ...but ultimately, the side job became the permanent career.

Harvey: Yes. So, and for years, and years, and years, and still to this day when people come and, you know, see me diamond cutting and, you know, they say, "Well, how long have you been doing this? And, "Since..." you know, whatever it is I gotta say, 10 years, 30 years, you know, 40 years. I would say, "Well, you know, it's just temporary until I get, you know, my big break, you know, on Broadway or something like that. So, you know. But I've enjoyed it, yeah.

Dan: So let's talk about the diamond cutting because that is fascinating in and of itself.

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: So you started with your dad and you learned the trade that way?

Harvey: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: And that…

Harvey: That was great. Yeah, I learned the trade that way. It was a, you know, wonderful experience. It was wonderful, you know, working under him and learning from him. Yeah, and, you know, from the get-go, you know, I was working on nice stones. He had nice stones to work on and, you know, he was a great teacher and a great mentor. And, you know, garnered a lot of respect in the diamond business. You know, and I really learned everything from him. I think even in terms of demeanor, you know, as it pertained to, you know, dealing with people, you know, and cutting. Diamonds is an interest I always talk about. You know the book...what's that book, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle?"

Dan: Yeah. I think it's "Motorcycle." Yeah, racing. It's something like that.

Harvey: Yeah, I think it's "Zen and the Art of Diamond Cutting." And I think that he transferred that to me. You know, that you have got to learn from the diamond. It's kind of like allowing the diamond to be what it wants to be. You can't force the issue. Diamond is a very hard material, it's very hard to cut. And there were days that I would come in and the diamond wouldn't cut for me, you know, believe it or not. And sometimes you can't make the diamond into what you want it to be. You have to allow the diamond to see its greatest potential. And, you know, how do you do that? You have to see that inside the stone.

Dan: It almost sounds like people, right? I mean, you can't make someone something that they are not, right? You have to encourage them to be who they are.

Harvey: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: So you learned, though, how to read the diamond?

Harvey: Yeah. I think with diamond cutting, that is one of the major things in terms of cutting, at least certainly back in the day. Nowadays we have, you know, new technology to help us ascertain what the finished product is going to look like when we see the rough. A diamond, you know, in the rough, is not a clear glass material like we see. So, sometimes it can be somewhat opaque, translucent, has imperfections inside of it that you're trying to, you know, minimize in a sense when you have the polished stone. So, for instance, if you have a stone and let's say the stone is 10 carats, much of the time when that stone finishes, you'll end up with, if you are lucky, 50%, you know, of the stone. It could be a 5 carat stone, it could be a 4 carat stone. If you get a great percentage, you know, in the diamond world, then you could finish a stone from 10 carats that's 5.5 carats, maybe 6 depending on the stone. And what everybody always asks, "So where does the rest of the diamond go?" So you're making facets and you're grinding away this piece of rough on a diamond wheel, which looks like a phonograph wheel. And on that wheel is impregnated diamond powder. And it's ground away and it turns to dust. So you, for instance, Dan, your lungs, you know, maybe they're worth like, when you die, maybe they're worth like $35 or something like that. Whereas when I go, I mean, my lungs...

Dan: Multimillion?

Harvey: Yeah. Who knows how much diamond powder is inside these lungs, you know?

Dan: And that's why your teeth are glowing so.

Harvey: Yeah, so, you know, like, they've been diamond polished.

Dan: So you mentioned this wheel, but I always had imagined that you're going to take it...you get this rough stone, right?

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: And then you take a hammer and a chisel and you break it at the right spot.

Harvey: No, you know what, that used to be true, actually, and that was part of the diamond-cutting process. That's actually, it's a process called cleaving. So let's say, as I said, you have this big piece of rough diamond, you know? And you see that you have a crack, it's in the center of this stone, it's not coming out. And it'd be very ugly if you made this one big stone with a crack or a black spot, big black piece of carbon in the middle. So you're going to go through it at a proper angle. You want to make two stones now, and you want to go through that stone. So in the old days, they would make a groove on that big piece of rough and the guy would take a hammer and a diamond impregnated chisel and he would tap on the groove and the diamond, hopefully, hopefully, would split in half in its, you know, proper forms. And then it would come to me each half and I would polish the rough stone into finished stones. So, for instance, I think it was the biggest diamond ever called the Kohinoor Diamond. It's in the crown jewels in London. It was the biggest piece of rough ever found to this day. It was found, probably around 1900 or 1890, something like that. And it was over 3000 carats.

Dan: Three thousand?

Harvey: One diamond. Today, recently, the next largest stone was 1000 carats. So that was 3000 carats of pure D color, which is the best color diamond. And this guy was assigned to split it, you know.

Dan: Into how many pieces?

Harvey: And he planned it. Well, eventually, they cut it probably into, I think, five or six different pieces and each piece was polished, but the main piece, you know, was a very delicate job and he planned on it for months. And, you know, he got out his chisel and his hammer. Everyone was watching, and he tapped it, you know, hammered on that facet and the stone split properly but he didn't know that it split properly because he fainted dead away after he did that. It was most, you know, incredible. Yeah.

Dan: So now in this day and age...

Harvey: Nowadays, I don't think much cleaving is going on because we have a much easier, more exacting process with laser. So they will put the stone in a laser and in a few hours they will laser, or in a day depending on the size of the stone, laser through the stone. But things can happen on the laser and in cutting, and the stone could shatter into pieces, you know, and break. You know, so for instance, I've worked on stones...you know, thank God that hasn't, you know, happened to me, in particular, many times in my career. But, you know, if a diamond cutter says to you that he's never had an accident or an accident happened on a stone, he's a liar. Because diamond has their own...they have gas bubbles, internal pressure, grain like a piece of wood. And, if that pressure gets too great or the material ends up being too fragile, it will just break apart, you know?

So I've seen it happen, it happened to me once when I was young. It was a very bad moment with my dad so early in my career. But, on occasion, if you're working on a super important stone, and I have, the owner of the stone who's bought the stone, and these stones can be $1 million, $20 million, you know, they will take out cutter's insurance on the stone. Say, God forbid something would happen, they're insured, you know?

Dan: Right.

Harvey: The stone should it break on the wheel, you know? But it's rare. It's really...yeah.

Dan: Thank goodness for everyone involved.

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: So talk about, maybe the most unique or valuable diamond that you've worked on.

Harvey: Yeah. That's interesting. The most unique...I would say, not the most valuable...and it doesn't pertain to size. That's a good question because people will usually ask me, "What is the largest diamond that you've, you know, worked on?" And I've worked on stones over 200 carats, you know? But they hadn't been the most unique, and the most important, or even the most valuable. I recently actually, in the last, you know...I thought I'd be done after that stone. Actually, in the past year, worked on what I thought was the most unique, most valuable stone that I ever made. And in the rough, it was probably over 40 carats, and it was the bluest blue diamond that I ever made. And I went to Africa to start cutting it because I had to begin it there because of their trade policy, you know? So rough, in South Africa, has to be initiated and worked on in South Africa, you know, before it can be exported to the U.S. So I began it there. I spent a number of weeks cutting it there and beginning the process there. And as the stone began to unfold, like I said...and nobody knew from the rough what it was going to be made into. Is it going to be a pear shape, is going to be an oval, are we going to make an emerald cut, or whatever?

Dan: You don't know this, potentially?

Harvey: I didn't know it myself, no. Because the stone had so many imperfections, gletzes we call it, and cracks and piques. So I have to begin, like, working, like, a sculpture on a piece of stone, beginning to work on the problems and see, "Gee, where is my shape, and what would the best shape be for this? Will it be a heart shape or something like that?" I don't know if I can tell you what the shape ended up being. I can tell you, you know, it was under 20 carats, the finish, certain well over 10 carrots. And it ended up being a clean, vivid blue diamond. So, and that's stone was really challenging and unique, and I think a stone like that would...I think it's probably sold and it's probably sold in the vicinity of $50 million.

Dan: $50 million?

Harvey: Yeah, yeah. You know, that was wonderful and challenging, and I love a project like that. So I'm really...what's the word I'm looking for? I'm really grateful, you know, that I've had the opportunity to work on special diamonds. And my expertise, my niche in terms of the diamond business, has metamorphosized into what I love to do is work on color diamonds. Not white diamonds per se, I rarely ever work on a white diamond. But I'll work on a color diamond, I'll work on a blue diamond, I'll work on a pink diamond. One diamond that I made years ago, I made over 3 carats, and I made it into a red diamond, which is the rarest of the rare. That's rarer than any color. So I think the largest red diamond that was ever made is 5 carats. So, I mean, a little over 5 carats in the scheme of things is not that large when, you know...

Dan: Don't tell my wife that.

Harvey: Yeah. I mean it's large to us.

Dan: Right.

Harvey: I mean, 5 carat in a white diamond is a large diamond, but you know, relative to other diamonds, it was probably one of the most valuable diamonds, you know, still is the rarest diamond and...one of the rarerest diamonds in the world is that 5-carat red diamond. So I had the opportunity years ago and I made the second. You know, like Avis, I'm trying hard. The second-largest red diamond, which was like probably around a 3.5 carat, cushion-shaped, red diamond, purportedly sold for, at the time, and you know, it probably might sell for more, I think around $5 million a carat, you know? So, and I think I heard rumors, and I believe it's true, from various sources that it ended up in the hands of Vladimir Putin, you know, as a pinky ring.

Dan: Red diamond?

Harvey: Yeah, yeah. So somebody, you know, paid off a good favor, you know.

Dan: It's interesting because you're working on a diamond then you say, "It purportedly sold." So you actually don't know, ultimately. Well, let me ask the question, who are you actually cutting the diamond for? Is it for a dealer or is it for someone who ultimately owns the stone and wants you to work it?

Harvey: Oh, no. That's a good question. It is for a dealer. Usually a diamond dealer or a diamond company. And so they'll buy the rough diamond either in auction...you know, they'll go...the diamonds are sold by companies whether they're in Antwerp or in, for instance, South Africa, or in Russia. They'll go to Alrosa, they'll go to different companies, and they'll participate in silent auction. It's not a silent auction like you pick up your hand, but you sit in a room such as this, and we sit, and a few of us sit together and we look at the rough diamonds. And because that has also been very much part of my career in the last 20 years, I've been a diamond buyer for various companies.

And we sit, we get a box of diamonds, and we get the diamonds in a parcel. We look at it, we examine it, we study it. We put down our assessment and appraisal, in a sense, of the rough diamond. What we think the polish will be? How big will this yield? What will the color be? What will the clarity be in the end? What are we going to make out of it? And therefore, how much should we bid on this piece of rough to beat the competition? You know, trying to build in, you know, some kind of a profit margin for ourselves. So it is in that sense, it's super competitive at the rough level. And, you know, the profit margin that people, or diamond dealers, or diamond companies that manufacturer are trying to build in for themselves when they bid on this to get the rough would be smaller than you think.

Dan: The profit margin?

Harvey: Yeah. Otherwise, they can't buy the stone, you know? So I've done that for the last, like, as I said, years. And that's the way a number of companies, you know, buy diamonds today and make it, and they give it to me. So I've also done that, and for years I didn't cut. When I worked for a very big diamond company, Louis Glick, a diamond company. And they were a site holder. What's a site holder?

Dan: Yeah.

Harvey: I think there are only six of them in the United States. So site holder was a big company, a diamond manufacturer company. And they would get a site from the De Beers company.

Dan: What do you mean a site?

Harvey: So I would go, get dressed in a suit once a month, and go to London to Charter House. I think it's 11 Charter House, I forgot the address, where the De Beers headquarters were, is still today. And you go into this room, and you are allotted, as a site holder, a box of goods each month. So you and I, as the diamond buyer for the company, would go each month, and it's probably, well 10 times a year where you assess the box of goods, you know, different kinds of diamonds in them. And you will look at the goods and you would report back to your company, you know, to Glick, to Mr. Glick, "Gee, this month we're going to make money," or, "This month we're not going to make money." Because you really, as a site holder, you didn't have...back in the day, you didn't have much leverage as to whether you were going to take the goods or not.

Dan: Oh you just had take it.

Harvey: You weren't bidding on the goods, you had to take it if you wanted to be a site holder. So you had maybe the opportunity of once a year or twice a year to say, "No, this is not good for me. I'm not taking this box of goods. So if you don't mind, you know, I'll see you next month."

Dan: I'll pass?

Harvey: I'll take a pass on these goods. And that's the way it worked with siteholders where some months they would make money on the boxes one after the other, like the stock market, and other months it was not good. But it was interesting, really interesting.

Dan: So you talked about Vladimir Putin as you've heard that he got that red diamond. Any other famous or notable people that you've cut diamonds for or sold to?

Harvey: I'm not sure or, you know, in particular. You know, we've had people come up and, you know, Warren Buffett, and Warren Buffett's wife, you know, years ago and buy diamonds. So I'm sure I have, but I don't...you know, I don't know.

Dan: You don't know because you just don't know.

Harvey: Yeah, I just don't know. I'm sure...

Dan: You're cutting for the dealer and the dealer sells it, it could be anonymous to you.

Harvey: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I see the diamonds sometimes that I've cut be sold, you know, for crazy prices, you know, at Sotheby's or Christie's and achieve, you know, fantastic prices, so great, you know.

Dan: Yeah.

Harvey: All good, you know.

Dan: All good.

Harvey: And that has become also, a big part of what it is that I do too. Sometimes people pay...they pay a fortune of money for a stone, or a pink diamond, or blue diamond, and they think that, you know, possibly they can get it to the next level. So in practical terms, so let's say they bought a 3-carat intense pink diamond, and maybe that 3-carat pink diamond is worth, I don't know, $700,000 a carat today. If they make the diamond vivid, it's worth over $1 million a carat. That's a big profit. And the stone is finished already, but they'll come to me and they'll say, "Do you think that you could make this stone vivid?" You know, and sometimes I'll say, "Yeah, I think if we recut this stone, and we change the angles, and we somehow can bring in more color into the stone, that I think you have a good chance of getting the stone to vivid." And sometimes they'll take the chance and we'll do that. So that's become a big part of my niche and what I do today.

Dan: So that's your expertise now is to actually look at the stone based upon your decades of experience and see what the value could be?

Harvey: Yes.

Dan: How you could alter the stone to make it more valuable.

Harvey: Exactly. I can upgrade the value. I can upgrade the value by changing the color, you know, and/or increasing the color. Yeah.

Dan: How many people would you say are out there that can do what you do?

Harvey: That I know of in New York...I'm sure there are people in Israel, the diamond cutters in Israel, and in Antwerp. But I think in New York there are just a few of us, I think, you know, that I feel relative...is my competition, you know? So I would say maybe four.

Dan: Wow.

Harvey: You know, four others, you know, that do it. And a lot of it is done...it's not only an individual but, like, you know, in teamwork. So I'll work with somebody, you know, because the battle is not only on the wheel, the battle is bringing it up for certification at the GIA, the Gemological Institute of America, which is supposed to be an impartial objective judge of the stone itself relative to color, and clarity, and all those things that go into what creates the value, like a stock table, you know? When it comes to white stones within the industry, we have a list that we go by. It can be relatively cut and dry. So if you have a round stone that's 2 carats, I can look on a list and say, "Okay, a 2-carat round stone, it's a G color, it's a VS1. It's a very good polish, very good symmetry. It's worth this according to the Rapaport wholesale list this week relative to the list. When it comes to color, there is no list, so it's what the market, you know, thinks the stone is worth, you know? So that's a whole different ballgame, you know?

Dan: So you're one of four in New York. I mean, roughly.

Harvey: Roughly, roughly. Yeah.

Dan: Three, four, five, but it's a very small number.

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: Over the years, how many different diamond cutters have you seen in your career come and go?

Harvey: Oh, you know, especially in the diamond industry, I think we've seen less and less in New York. So I don't know when I started, there could have been a couple thousand diamond cutters in New York, 47th Street area, you know? I think we're down to, in New York, probably under a hundred diamond cutters, you know? And they're all great diamond cutters, you know? I think in America, in New York, we cut the largest stones in the world. And I think there's a reason for it, we're specialists, you know, we have a greater expertise. All of the guys I've been working with...and they're great guys, they become like your family. And I'd been working with them for what, 30, 40 years. And the, you know, same environment, same place, you see them more than you see your family. And so we know each other so well.

And we're all older guys. We're all still kicking and we're in our 60s, 70s, you know, doing what we do. And I think that's one of the joys that keeps me going in. I'm 66, I thought I'd be retired by now, but I guess I'm not. But I also, even though I'm not acting, I'm still loving what I am doing. So it's just great for me to go in and see those guys. And we all work together, there's no kind of competition, "you're working on this stone?" We all help each other. And like I said, if you want to get a sense of humility, you know, become a diamond cutter because the diamonds will teach you and they will humble you, you know? You think you know, and I'm 45 years doing it, 46, and I'm still learning every day.

Dan: So let's talk about it because you said the diamonds will humble you, and you mentioned earlier that you, I don't know what, you destroyed a stone, a stone blew up or something, one of your dad's stones. So what's you're worst business moment? What's your worst experience...

Harvey: Worst business moment?

Dan: ...and what did you learn from it?

Harvey: Yeah. I don't think I've had bad business moments relative to cutting, or doing what I do, or being a diamond buyer, you know, for other people. I think my worst business...and it's interesting as it pertains to the diamond industry because I've seen every aspect of this business, of the diamond industry. I've been in every aspect, whether it's retail, whether it's cutting, whether it's being a rough diamond buyer, whether it is buying diamonds for myself, or in partnership with other people and manufacturing them and then selling them. So the worst time that I ever had was I had just started to buy diamonds for myself, you know, and I had other people as partners putting up money. And I bought them from this guy who then said that he had wanted the diamonds, he had customers for them. And he took a few of these expensive diamonds from me. You know, I remember the stones. One was vivid, two of them were vivid yellow, one was an intense yellow diamond. Nice nice stones, 5 carats, 7-carat stones.

It ended up being...you know, it was a couple of hundred thousand dollars at the time, which was a lot of money for me. Going back, I don't know how long ago this was, maybe it was 20 years ago or over 20 years. Oh yeah, I sold it, but I never got the money back from him. And he actually really stole the diamonds from me. And that was my worst time. I ended up getting most of the money back, you know, but that was my worst time because that was prolonged over a year. And I couldn't sleep. And I felt so bad also, not only for myself, that was bad enough, but I felt bad for the people that had entrusted me with their money in terms of this partnership. Thank God it worked out all right in the end, but it was a tough year.

But it was also a moment. And why I say it's interesting relative to the diamond business because if you know the diamond business is for years, you know...And I still do that and will, you know, buy and sell, not as much, rough diamonds and polish. When I give you a diamond, you know, whatever, it could be, you know, and I give it to you, you sell it for me, or you're buying it for me, or whatever. And there's no, you know...All right, it's a memo, a piece of paper, but there's no contract or whatever. You walk away with, you know, a half a million dollars in your pocket. And then we make a deal, "Okay, you sold the diamond. Let's put it down in a contract or that..." No, once you say, "mazal" and "bracha," it's a done deal. That's the diamond business and it still is to this day, you know? Mazal. Mazal, okay, and which means "good luck," but in the diamond parlance it means, you know, "We're done," you know?

Dan: "We've got a deal."

Harvey: "We have a deal." And that's pretty sacrosanct, you know? And once you've said that, you don't go back on your word.

Dan: Wow. And I guess if you do, then you're shut out of the industry.

Harvey: Yes.

Dan: You don't want that.

Harvey: And they have their own court, their own Bashtur, the Diamond Dealer's Club where you can bring a people, you know? And, you know, that's actually what happened to me relative to this, and where my situation was resolved at the Diamond Dealer's Club, you know? So...

Dan: And that's in New York as well?

Harvey: In New York, yeah.

Dan: So a little economy, a little...I don't know. Their own little...

Harvey: Little world.

Dan: Their own little world, their own little village.

Harvey: Yeah.

Dan: Interesting. So what's your big takeaway from all of this? You had mentioned something before we turned on the microphone. All this experience that...

Harvey: You know, I think my takeaway is if I was giving advice or whatever, in terms of my career...my career started, as I said, very...the word, I think somebody mentioned the word is serendipitously, you know, really. If, you know, a door was open or whatever, I walk through and say, "Okay." You know? So I never gave things much thought. I didn't think about, "Oh gee, where am I going to go to college? Where..." you know? Those are the days, you know, back when...I'm older than you. It was okay, all right. We didn't try to instill in our kids, you know, "You can't have a liberal arts degree from college or whatever, you have to find something, pursue a career." Those were days you can get away with, or at least in my head, it was. I never cared about money per se or, you know, back in the day when I went to college and afterward, you know. It was a way...you know, I wanted to be creative, I wanted to be an artist in that sense, so I wasn't concerned with that.

But if an opportunity was given to me and my father gave me the opportunity, I went in it and pursued it and enjoyed it, you know. So, and then when I was given...which is interesting because it's not my nature. It's not my nature, you know, to plan ahead and have a plan, you know that. So, you know, when for instance, I was given the opportunity, and it's interesting, to become a diamond buyer, you know, and Mr. Glick called me in and I was a diamond cutter and doing my work and everything. And I was happy doing my work. I was my own boss in a sense. Diamond cutters make their own money based on what they cut, they don't have salaries, so...But he said to me, "I want to hire you to become a diamond buyer and to go to De Beers to go buy diamonds for us. You know the diamond, you know what you're doing."

And first, I came back to him and said, "I don't think I want to do this." And he said to me, "Why?" He couldn't understand it. And I said, "Because, you know, I'm very happy with my life. I make a good living. I come and go and when I please. I go on vacation when I want, you know. I make my own hours." He said, "Yeah. Okay, I understand." He said, "But you don't understand it's an opportunity for you to broaden your horizons, to see parts of the world that you're never going to see, Africa, or that you might not see, and go to Russia and, you know, go to all these different places." And I went home and I told Lori, my wife, what he had said, you know, and she said to me, "He's right. You know, it's an opportunity. It's something different and you should take it."

And that was one of the best decisions I ever made, having done that, and seeing the world, and going out there, and seeing business from that side of the door as a deal. And if I had it to do over, I would have done it sooner. So that's the advice. You know what, if you see an opportunity or you think that there might be one, even if you don't know how it's going to pan out...you know, it could have its pitfalls, you're going into the unknown, go into the unknown and do it. Yeah.

Dan: Trust your gut and trust those you love around you who also understand you.

Harvey: Yeah. And take you there.

Dan: Don't be shy.

Harvey: You know, take the opportunity.

Dan: Well, you're not shy.

Harvey: Not now.

Dan: And on that note, I think were going to wrap it up. But Harvey, thank you immensely for sharing your story about how the diamonds are cut, their various values, and just the whole technique, which is all a learning experience, I think, for virtually everyone listening to this podcast. So few people know what it means or how to cut a diamond or the value. All they know is they like a big one, you know?

Harvey: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: So, but thanks immensely. And...

Harvey: It was my pleasure.

Dan: ...I appreciate it.

This episode was recorded by Daniel Kramer, Managing Director of the Constantine Wealth Management Group of Raymond James, 401 Hackensack Avenue, Suite 803, Hackensack, New Jersey 07601. Raymond James and Associates Inc, member New York Stock Exchange/SIPC. Companies mentioned are not affiliated with Raymond James. Opinions expressed are those of the speaker and not necessarily those of Raymond James. Any information provided is for informational purposes only.